Minneapolis Improv Boards

[Aric McKeown's Ghost]

I see 3rd person entrances used incorrectly more than I do correctly.

Often times it's to change the scene to something seen by the outside observer. These entrances should be used to heighten what is already happening in the scene.

And if it does heighten what's in the scene, often times it's still not needed because the people in the scene are doing just fine.

So what are we really trying to do when we enter as a third character? Are we thinking:

- I'll save this scene.
- I want to get in on this scene.
- This is going to be hilarious.
- They called for this character.
- This will heighten their relationship.

I know we spend a lot of time at the Workshop classes going over third person entrances. But why are they so often horrible things?
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"I will play the Which Giraffe Sweepstakes, where I try to guess which giraffe will come take you from your noose." - Commander Major Alastair Q. Bastidious

http://www.mustacherangers.com

[orips wenga]

This is how I'm seeing them being used:

"Wow!! Those guys are having a lot of fun and getting tons of laughs!! I want a piece of that. I'll enter as a third person!!"

or...

"Wow! I could never be bothered to start my own scene so I'll just let some other folks to the work and then I'll enter as a third person if I like what I see."

[anvilheadboy]

I lean heavily toward only entering in order to heighten what is already happening.

depending on the comfort level of the group that heightening can be pretty straightforward or abstract.

When it is done to save a scene, I appreciate the intention(I am not going to leave my team hanging) but I think that it rarely if ever works.

The worst is coming in to just be funny. Usually falls flat. I am guilty of this, so I know the damage it can cause!
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"just remember...there are still 6 billion chinese who don't care if we have
a good set or not." - Sean Tonko?

If the terrorists hated freedom, then the Netherlands would be fucking dust - David Cross

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[adequacity]

I usually only enter if I'm called for or there's a way to heighten. At least I try to do that.

Unless it's Comedy Sportz where if you don't enter the audience is let down because there's three people on your team and all three of you HAVE to be involved.

I've found sometimes when I'm with a larger group that I jump out for the new scene and there's two people closer who declare to eachother and I'm sort of in the background or on the side and they don't see me. I can't jump back so in these instances I never seem to help the scene because I'm thinking too hard of how to justify my existence away from the action. That, and I'm trying to be really fucking funny.
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[Joe Ferrari]

[tommel]

I think the habit of coming on when called for is one of those improv reflex things that improvisors have a hard time getting over. So often it's a combination of "I'll yes-and them by coming in as the milkman!" and "I have no deal and no character, but I will be happy to assume the one you just called for!"

I think it's a bad habit and it comes from people listening to the plot of a scene and not trying to understand the game of the scene.

When someone calls for the milkman, it's rarely your job to be the milkman. More often it's your job to come on as the neighbor who says "Where the fuck is the milkman today??"

Improv is like Waiting For Godot. The show isn't about Godot and would be boring if Godot ever actually showed up.

If someone's deal is so hung up on a person external to the scene, the only way you can help them out with a third person entrance is to either 1) heighten the character's absence or 2) come on as the character and play AGAINST their deal.

This is not the day you take your dream date to prom, this is the day your dream date turns out to be a bearded she-male named Mel.

-Tom LomMel...?

[jillybee72]

I am thinking "Now what happens? Now what happens? Now what happens?" and sometimes the answer is a third person enters and that third person is me. My feet go, I'm not in charge.
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I could be wrong.

[SassyMcGuire]

Ideally, a third person entrance is to:
1. Heighten a point of view
2. Give a gift
3. Add ambience

Give a gift and leave---like the touching example.
Be ambience by flavoring the scene---not distracting from it.
Heighten---without projecting your own agenda.

What is challenging is the thescenestartsoutwith3people dilema. That may be another thread entirely...
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woop woop

[jillybee72]

I'm looking for the old list from Stevie Ray's of all the types of third person entrances. Anyone got it?
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I could be wrong.

[Aric McKeown's Ghost]

Did I really start this topic? I don't remember 2004 Aric that well.
_________________
"I will play the Which Giraffe Sweepstakes, where I try to guess which giraffe will come take you from your noose." - Commander Major Alastair Q. Bastidious

http://www.mustacherangers.com

[Jamesaurus Rone]

Sometimes I'll enter and exit a scene quickly if I notice that a who or where haven't been established, and the scene is rudderless as a result. I'll just define the relationship or the location with a quick tap, and then leave.

It's true that I probably worry about rudders more than most improvisers. That said, there are times when I sense that the audience is reserving its investment in a scene because the circumstances haven't been defined, and there isn't a hook to hang the action on.

I have been taught to avoid the graceless declaration of circumstances, but I've also been taught to gracelessly declare circumstances because the audience will forgive you for it, as they can now enjoy the scene.

Whatever. I think it's a gut thing. I've seen beautiful scenes that wait ages before naming the relationship or the location - enough information is provided through the way the improvisers play that the audience doesn't care. I've also seen dozens and dozens of scenes that probably would have been fine to great if the improvisers had just made an overt choice about relationship and location earlier.

Maybe what I described is attempting to "save the scene." Maybe that's not cool. I don't know.
_________________
"Maybe you could be my intern/and in turn/
I'll show you how I cook up summer, in the win-turr." - Kanye West

[hellendrung]

I started doing improv to make people laugh. When I was in college, I didn't even know that what I was doing was art. I thought it was fun. And that's it.

So, to say that I've changed so much that I don't see the value in the funny would be a lie. I love a good third person entrance that does nothing more than give a quick laugh. I'd never purposely destroy something beautiful on stage, but sometimes I have that urge to let the audience in on the secret. I want to let them know that this crazy scene in a park between a giant squirrel and a homeless man IS weird. And my "normal jogger" is going to let you know by a quick Canadian Cross and a look.

I'm a big fan of the note that James made about acting as a third character merely to set up what the other players haven't given yet. There are a lot of talented improvisors here in the Twin Cities that can literally feel out an audience in the first 5 seconds of a scene. It's those instincts that allow folks to enter as a 3rd person successfully.

Sometimes we do fall into the well when making a 3rd person entrance, but I would argue that by adding a third character, you're automatically heightening a scene. The beauty of improv is that everyone is there to assist the others. If a third person entrance fails, it is as easy to blame it on the folks who started the scene as it is the person who entered a little later.
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